Cavalieri signs, Guthrie speaking to Newcastle

Liverpool’s signing of Brazilian goalkeeper Diego Cavalieri has now been completed, with the £3m signing from Palmeiras officially unveiled today. The third player unveiled this week, after full-backs Andrea Dossena and Philipp Degen, 25-year-old Cavalieri has signed for four years.

Able to play without a work permit due to his Italian passport, the Brazilian knows he won’t be first choice ahead of Pepe Reina. He is prepared to work hard and take any opportunity that comes his way, as he told Liverpool’s official website: “I know it won’t be easy to get into the team. I watched some Liverpool games in both the Premier League and Champions League last year and I know Pepe is a very good goalkeeper. But everyone has to fight for their place and I’m sure we will have a healthy rivalry. I know I will have to be patient and work very hard to achieve my aims – but it is always like that when you come from another country.”

Cavalieri with Rafa, and Rafa with Degen and DossenaHe was pictured wearing the number 13, with Liverpool’s number 1 jersey likely to remain vacant as long as Pepe is first choice. The Spaniard prefers number 25, and has turned down the chance to move to number 1 previously. Cavalieri says he may get the chance to wear that number at Anfield eventually: “My confidence has got me where I am today and maybe people are aware of what I did at Palmeiras in Brazil. I am sure that one day I can get the number one position but that will only come with hard work. I feel very privileged and happy to have signed for Liverpool because everyone knows they are one of the top clubs in the world, the name ‘Liverpool’ is known all around the world. It’s an honour to wear this shirt.”

He also revealed that the move had happened at a rapid pace: “It was a dream for me to come to Europe, though I was taken aback by how quickly everything happened. It’s all been sorted out in one week, but I have been given a very good welcome from my teammates and the manager, so I’m very happy to be here. I just hope I can respond to all this.”

And he’s had a lengthy chat with the boss: “Rafa and I spoke for a long time on the day I arrived. He explained to me how the football is here and the differences from Brazil. He also talked to me about the responsibilities of representing a club like Liverpool.”

Two of those who have welcomed him are fellow Brazilians Fabio Aurelio and Lucas, and their presence is a boost to the keeper: “I had an opportunity to talk to Lucas and Fabio when I arrived and they have welcomed me with open arms. They said that if there is anything I need they will help me. I’m very pleased that I’ll be playing alongside some Brazilians. I think the quality of the Brazilian players means they can come to Europe. Every day you hear about new players coming through. Also, the European market is very strong and it’s very difficult for the Brazilian market to compete.”

His arrival ends any slight doubts that Scott Carson might be staying, and confirms that Galatasaray target Charles Itandje is on his way too. Today’s Echo reports Liverpool have two offers on the table for Carson, both from Premiership clubs, although neither has been accepted.

Also on the table, but accepted, is an offer from Kevin Keegan’s Newcastle for Reds midfielder Danny Guthrie. The 21-year-old needs to now agree personal terms.

At a press conference yesterday Rafa played down his earlier comments about David Villa being on his list of targets, but when asked about Robbie Keane admitted he was on the list. Spurs’ asking price of £20m will not be met by Rafa, but the player himself is believed to be keen on a move to the club he once turned down, but supported as a boy. Spurs fans are desperate that their club hold onto their captain, who signed a new deal recently. Rafa said: “I mentioned David Villa as one of the names we are looking at, but we know his price and, given the players we have, we need to look for another kind of player. Keane is clearly a player that has game intelligence and we are looking for players who can fit into our systems and improve the team. We are looking for players with the right quality and I think we’ll find some in the next few days… Not necessarily the names that everybody knows.”

Rafa said that there wasn’t “much” money available for transfers, but that there were a few targets being chased: “Ideally, we would want two or three players more. We don’t have much money, so we need to deal with selling and buying players. I knew more or less the situation before the summer and, when you know what to expect, you need to show imagination and be creative to find solutions. Degen is proof that we were working really well, and Dossena is here. We’ve been working without spending big money and now we can see if we can progress with the other names.”

Some of that money will come further sales, with Peter Crouch expected to be unveiled as  Portsmouth’s new £11m signing today at a 1pm press conference. Xabi Alonso’s move to Juventus continues to be subject to threats from Juve that they will pull out if the price isn’t dropped.

Despite his comments about their not being a lot of money to spend, Rafa said that it’s not always about spending power: “Sometimes it is not about how much money you spend but getting the players you need. We needed full-backs with different qualities and these two players could be good for us. Afterwards maybe you can sign big names and maybe people will be happy, but the priority is to sign the players that you want and need – in this case two full-backs who can give something more to the team.”

He was talking about Degen and Dossena, and he feels they will both adjust in time for the new season: “I think all foreign players need time to adjust and it depends on the mentality. Both players are very good professionals and that was one of the things we were looking for – a strong mentality and they can compete as well, so I think they will be okay.”

Dossena has chosen to wear number two for next season, with Degen picking the number 27 shirt. Numbers 6 and 7 remain vacant.

Dossena explained his conversations so far with Rafa Benítez: “The talks I have had with Benitez have mostly been about tactics. He has explained that he wants a four-man defence but that the most important thing is that the balance on the pitch is never broken. There must be balance between the left and right-backs.”

And he has already spotted a difference between football here and in Italy: “Even from training I realise English football is different. It’s all about possession and the ball seems to move quicker. There is also a great determination among the players in training, but these are all qualities that are characteristic of me too. In this way, I feel half English, half Italian.”

Another youngster has been added to Liverpool’s ranks, 17-year-old Dutch forward Vincent Lucas Weijl has signed a three-year deal after Liverpool brought him from AZ Alkmaar.

57 thoughts on “Cavalieri signs, Guthrie speaking to Newcastle”

  1. Keane and Barry have to be the ones to take those vacant shirts dont they? Does any think we will keep alonso and get barry in? I recall Rafa saying they could both play in the same team, does this mean we dont need the alonso money to get barry, and if that the case would we then have the 15 we would spend on barry and the 11 from big Petes sale still to go into the market with, assuming we dont end up gettin Barry from villa?

  2. I would have liked to him stay. Just another in the long line of youth players that LFC part with every year. a line almost as long as the number of youth players coming in.

    Where are the results. Ok Plessis and Insua, maybe a run out this year. But for crying out loud Rafa is buying youth 3-1 over senior players. Surely 2 players every couple years is a poor return.

    Anderson on loan now. Apart from Carson do we ever bring loan players back. Not too sure but open to be corrected.

    Granted, youth cup success should not be underestimated but they are bought with the potential to be great players but never appear to make the grade after youth success.

    No loan for Nemeth, Insua, Plessis and even Pacheco this year …play them all in League cup. Recall anderson and lets see what they can do in the league cup

  3. ALL OF THE SCRAMBLE TO SELL PLAYERS TO BE ABLE TO BUY PLAYERS COMES DOWN TO – The failure of Messrs Hicks and Gillett to put money into the club, as they had promised to do. LFC has now become a laughing stock as it slides down the poverty ladder, all, yes all this is the fault of the American owners, we say owners but, anybody can buy by borrowing and borrowing and then charging the entity the interest, that is not ownership, it is conship and starting with Moores, Parry and everybody else, they have conned us, they said one thing and did another and now that they have their grubby hands on the title deeds of the club they wont allow somebody else who does have the money to take LFC forward from 2 years ago. LFC IS SLOWLY GOING BACKWARDS AND THE MOST SURPRISING THING OF ALL IS THAT WE STILL HAVE A MANAGER AND TOP PLAYERS BUT, THEIR PATIENCE WILL GIVE OUT AND SHORTLY, 12 MONTHS SAY THERE WILL BE RESIGNATIONS GALORE AND WHO COULD BLAME THEM.

  4. @Ken Christian
    ABOSOLUTLEY BANG ON The club is in trouble and on the slippery slope.The only reason Rafa is still with us is because he and his family love the club and the city but his personal ambition will eventually overide this. The Americans have been an unmitgated disaster and should go forthwith but there’s little sign they take notice of anything but their own interests. Perhaps the worldwide credit crunch will force them to sell. And who is totally unaffected by the economic downturn and the price of oil?? Yes our old friends DIC, the only show in town.

  5. I’m surprised at how pessimistic the fans sound in the forum transfer-wise. Jim has several times given clear figures on the likely transfer budget Rafa should get, and these figures are still valid. My own reckoning is as follows:
    Ins: Dossena (£7m), Cavalieri (£3m), Barry (£18m), Keane or Silva (£20m) > £48m
    Outs: Crouch (£11m), Riise (£4m), Alonso (£15m), Pennant (£5m) > £35m.
    I understand that Rafa is given £20m by Thicks and his new mate GG on top of the cash he manages to raise from sales > this might leave him £7m overall.
    Needless to say, some outs are anything but guaranteed, but the worst that could happen would be Barry not coming to us and Alonso not being sold (this might be an asset for LFC next year)!). No reason to get depressed. With the two full backs, Barry plus Silva or Keane, the team seems to be much better balanced than last year. Plus, Babel is going to start fulfilling his potential, and the likes of Pacheco, Plessis or Nemeth should occasionally get into the first team. The immediate future is bright, TH and GG notwithstanding.

  6. Jofrad, I keep seeing your name pop up on here and people who sound like you popping up elsewhere and I see people who just like to see their own name in lights joining a bandwagon that most people jumped off a long time ago.

    If Rafa is with us because of his passion for the club, and is now willing to accept the situation, is it not time to shut the **** up with all this pathetic moaning?

    If I’m not mistaken, I emailed the owners of this site about a comment you left on here where you linked to the S*n about something. Apologies if that wasn’t you but someone on here who sounds like you used that paper for some point or other. And there are a few who sound like you on here. What kind of fan even looks at that newspaper, let alone quotes it, or worse still links to it? Do you read it, or its website?

    As for DIC, they screwed up buying us when we were on sale in 2006 and even though they had spent months on due diligence didn’t spot how much money we could be worth. They never even made a firm bid for the club, even when they were granted the exclusive right to do so. How smart is that? It isn’t, is it? It’s amateur.

    Now they’ve been stalking us again, since last September or October, and still have not put a bid in that the current owners feel matches the potential on offer. Like with Moores, they under bid. Now they do it again. Nine months of them adding fuel to the fires that they might not have started but fires they have enjoyed watching burn.

    All the time, whatever damage Hicks and Gillett might or might not be doing, they are adding to it all.

    In fact they aren’t adding to it now. DIC have disappeared. We’ve not heard anything from them since the end of the season apart from them telling SOS a tale about George Gillett being the reason they still haven’t bought us.

    But like a bad smell you can’t get rid of, their presence is still felt, always bringing with it nothing but negative comments.

    Regardless of Hicks and Gillett, the simple fact is that DIC are not fit to run our club. They are not the right owners for us. If they were they’d already have bought us the first time. If they were they’d have made one serious effort to buy us from the Americans, paying the price that was required or withdrawing when it was clear they could not afford us. They can’t afford us under their strict rules on investments, to buy us they’d have to break their own rules.

    Their strategy has been to buy us at their own cut price valuation or to see us fail and for our value to fall as a result. S*n readers and fans who just want to complain about greener grass elsewhere are helping them get the latter.

    Let’s hope Rafa’s love for the club, and the love of genuine fans, allows the club to withstand that pressure to fail that so many enemies of the club are wishing on us.

  7. @WJ,

    Well said mate, although I personally am against Hicks and Gillett and, would rather see DIC own us, i feel the time for talking has long gone and with no action that i’ve seen of….it is genuinely time to put up or shut up.

    On another, lighter not, it was absolutely class to see Danny Agger back in action, i went to the game and it was great to see him looking eager, driving forward, shooting and spraying long passes across the pitch.

  8. To update what I just said, it was Jofrad who linked to The S*n on here.

    The comment has been edited now but he linked to it. Scroll down to where he talks about rolling out a red carpet.

    So come on Jofrad, how can you say anything, anything at all, as a ‘Liverpool Fan’ if that is how unaware you are of what being a Liverpool fan is all about? You don’t speak for any fans, whoever you are, if you don’t even know about why you should not be going anywhere near that paper.

    Not all you say is wrong, but a lot of it is. And even when it’s not wrong you make it sound wrong. I think you’re a Manc who is trying to wind us all up myself.

  9. I know what you mean STC because I know if we could turn the clock back now we’d have all picketed the club. We’d have got them to say what they meant not twist their words to con us into something else. But we can’t turn the clock back, and DIC are doing nothing good at all for the club. So we’ve got to make the most of what we’ve got. People who spend their lives wondering what might have been usually end up as sad lonely people. Time to move on, but move on armed with the knowledge of what has happened before so we can try and keep getting the best for the club.

    The new fan card scheme has sneaked in without us knowing about it but if we’d had a better relationship with the club through SOS I bet we would have got a better scheme in place. Even if we hadn’t, we’d have known what the scheme was all about and not be left guessing what it all means.

    If we keep acting like this we’ll have more schemes sneaked through that we might have been able to improve if we’d got involved.

  10. @WJ
    I’m Liverpool born and bred, hate the limelight and don’t ever pick up the Sun. I just hate whats happened to our club in the last 18 months.

  11. Oh and I was responding to Pierre’s comments about a story in The Times and relating it to other ridiculous stories picked up online in many other newspapers . What’s the problem ??

    If anyone thinks that everything is now hunkdory at Liverpool FC they’re living in cloudcuckooland.

  12. Carson set to leave for 3.5 mil???? I was of the knowledge that he was valued at 10 mil?

  13. @WJ….Well said mate…..I cant stand all these fooookin doom mungers at our club. We now have the start of our new stadium, we’ll still get some class players this summer.(but im hoping we dont swap alonso for barry). And we still have moaning S*n readers slagging the club off. GET BEHIND THE CLUB FFS.

  14. oh…….and 1 other thing. I bet most of these people are the same ones who i saw leaving at half time in Istanbul, or was it the pub, or even worse switched over to watch bloody easrenders!!!


  15. The new owners were supposed to put Liverpool in a position to challenge Man U, Chelsea & Arsenal in both performance and finance…………..we’re still waiting. We should not have to sell players purchased only in the last 18 months to buy new ones. The fact is the club is loaded with debt which has to be refinanced within a few months, thats not doom mongering its reality.
    Oh and I read The Independent, never bought The Sun in my life, supported Liverpool all my life (born 1945)

  16. You did link to that paper’s website Jofrad, I remember editing your post to remove the link. In my view reading the paper’s website is as bad as reading the paper, and reading the paper is no better than buying the paper. For all the debate on whether the other Murdoch products should be boycotted, and if anything related to Kelvin McKenzie should be boycotted, there’s never been any debate at all about the S*n. You don’t read it, buy it, quote it, touch it! And if you find a Liverpool fan who does you should tell them why we don’t. Hopefully your post (a while back now) was just a misunderstanding about how the boycott includes using their website in any way whatsoever.

    As for the other issue, well I think it’s fairly clear that Tom Hicks and George Gillett are going to be Liverpool’s joint owners going into the new season. They might be joint owners at the end, they might both be gone, one might remain. But for now, they own our club, and nobody else is stepping in to make an offer that will change that.

    I know I’m getting tired of seeing the ownership situation brought into practically every single story about our club, at least on forums if not in the press itself.

    It’s right that we’ll turn into bitter and twisted people much like those we criticise from across the park, who in so many cases still spend most of their time talking about what might have been had it not been for that dark day in 1985.

    It’s happened. Tom Hicks and George Gillett own the club, they borrowed money to buy us, and the only way we’ll get extra money for transfers, over and above the money the club can make itself, is to borrow more money, or improve commercially.

    The new £29 scheme for membership has been made out to be far worse than it actually is, even if it isn’t perfect, and it’s one way of increasing revenues without borrowing. It looks like Thomas Cook are about to be announced as one of our sponsors, so we’ll get money as a club to once again reduce the borrowing. If the deal works out, and they get a lot of business from their tie-in with us, then when it needs to be renewed we might be able to negotiate a better deal. Nobody says you have to go with Thomas Cook, it’s a choice. And if you choose it, LFC will benefit in one way or other.

    Our sales aren’t going as well as maybe they could have, at least in terms of how quickly it’s all happening. That said, the overall fee for Crouch is more than expected. One year left on his contract, and a deal worth up to £11m. And Riise, also with a year left, nearly £4m for him. Good business. Scott Carson’s £10m fee agreed with Villa included the £2m they’d already paid for his 12-month loan. So we’ve dropped £4m if we sell him for £4m, but I doubt anyone expected the agreed fee to be paid. Maybe if he’d got England into Euro2008 and helped them make it to the semis, and maybe that’s why the agreed fee was so high – just in case.

    I believe we’ve got £20m to spend on top of any sales, and I believe the signature of Keane is now pretty close. Xabi’s move to Juve may have fallen through, but they aren’t the only side looking at him.

    Rafa is getting the players he’s asking for, even if he’s having to ask for players he feels aren’t his first choice. And even that would be speculation. He got to decide what to do with the budget, he chose to go for players like Keane and Barry, it’s not the owners telling him to. And he’s looked at others, many others.

    Time to cheer up and try to enjoy the new season. And if you can’t, maybe it’s time you found another sport to follow, or had a break from it all for a while.

    (By the way Jofrad, this wasn’t all aimed at you!)

  17. The way I see DIC I’m not convinced, I dried to say it but better the devil you know, because DIC seem to be too ruthless and with no respect for the club. Maybe I m wrong!!! By the way I still hate the cowboys anyway.

  18. Rafa seems to be complacent with the situation of the owners at the moment.If Rafa’s happy, I’m happy!!

  19. Jim,
    I never denied linking the story along with many others online, what’s the problem ? Your attitude smacks of the Thought Police. I have never bought The Sun in my life, you seem remarkably aquainted with The Sun’s sports pages for someone who nevers reads the paper. Rembember the campaign says “Don’t BUY The Sun ”
    All I am saying is that in my opinion all is not well at the club and that if things are not sorted out say within a year then I think we’re in trouble. I have supported Liverpool since the 40’s,right through the 50’s in the Boy’s Pen, to the glory days thereafter. Liverpool used to be a by word for the common sense way to run a club but what has happened in the last 18 months has made me heartily sick and there are many others who feel the same. If you (Jim) don’t like or more likely don’t want my opinions then I’ll stay away from your precious website. I won’t be the first.

  20. @Jofrad

    Actions speak louder than words so don’t leave the website just yet. Keep with it. I, at least, enjoy reading what you say, even if I don’t agree with you (or Jim and the rest!).

    Whether we’re stuck with Hicks and Gillett or not doesn’t mean we can’t or shouldn’t go into the next season criticising them. We can’t change the current government, the regime in Zimbabwe or, even, who is responsible for this website 🙂 but it shouldn’t prevent us from expressing a critical opinion if it’s in support of our Club.

    Hicks and Gillett have gone a little quiet which is good.

    Rafa and footballing issues are at the fore.

    But, I can’t help but feel that Rafa’s doing what he can with one, maybe half a hand tied behind his back. To sell Alonso is not his favoured option for sure. But while Chelsea and United are buying to improve, and Arsenal are reluctantly selling – or so Wenger would have us believe (despite the huge sums of cash he may get for Adebayor and Hleb) – we, or rather Rafa may be forced to sell a key option, in Alonso, to try other ways of winning the PL. If it works then great but we need to be realistic next season………although whoever said being a football fan was built on realism.

    I share the view that Robbie Kean would be a fantastic addition, although the sums of money being talked about are questionable. He is talented, has an undeniable record for hard work and has that fantastic habit of creating goals out of nothing, as well as playing on the right-side of midfield if required.

    Barry is a good player. And as Capello, Wenger and Rafa speak highly of his technical abilities who am I to disagree. However, at this moment, I just can’t see the added value at the price we’re being quoted (and given the midfield resources at our disposal).

    I just hope we get as lucky with injuries this season as we did last season. We are not like United (Berbatov?), Chelsea (Robinho?/Deco), Arsenal (Nasri) who have new alternatives to add to their top 3 side. Heaven forbid we lose Torres or Gerrard for any signficant length of time. Then we /David Moores would be cursing the lack of funds at the club.

    But for all the gloom I’ve raised, I am ACTUALLY hopeful of the season ahead.

    We have a great manager, great and good players, fantastic team spirit (it was only a year since Bellamy was at our club right??) and young players itching to ste-up to the plate.

    So Jofrad, don’t go anywhere, they’ll be plenty of things -ownership et al – for you to comment on just hang in there, fight back (with your words) and enjoy the next few weeks, months. The rollercoater ride of a new season is about to begin.

    Hip, hip…………………………ooooh, ahhhhh!! 🙂

  21. @midlands-red
    Thanks mate ! I’m really willing to be proved wrong its just that I’ve met too many people like Tom Hicks in my life.

  22. @Jofrad: First of all, I said that my comment wasn’t all aimed at you. The S*n bit was, but the rest wasn’t. I’ll come back to the S*n in a minute.

    You are entitled to your views on LFC, and I’m not stopping you from repeating them on here. It’s up to you.

    But my view, which I am also entitled to, is that all of this negative stuff about the ownership is doing us additional harm. Whatever harm may or may not be caused by the owners, all of this moaning based on speculation, rumours, gossip, often false information, is hurting our club even more. If we aren’t beyond saving, how are all these extra attacks from our own fans supposed to help us? If we’re down, why are our owns fans kicking us?

    It’s not helping us, in my view, in even a small way. I’m not the only one to think that either. It’s taking time, but more and more seem to be seeing it. In fact I think the relative silence on a lot of sites nowadays when the H or G word is mentioned tells you that even if people aren’t ready to come out and condemn DIC or support H and G, they are also tired of all of this angry criticism of LFC – because that’s what it is, even if it’s aimed at LFC’s owners – and want to get on with looking at what’s going on away from that board room.

    People go on about “The Liverpool Way” – well that “Way” doesn’t just include the boardroom. Otherwise it would be called “The Liverpool Boardroom Way”. And public washing of linen, of which there was so much criticism, is as wrong when we (as fans) do it as it is when someone in the ivory towers does it. So – in my view – we need to shut up for now, especially seeing as so many of the predictions of trouble ahead have already been proved wrong. Is it perfect? No. Is it beyond hope? No.

    That’s why I said – and as I pointed out not just to you – that if you can’t put the boardroom issues to one side and start concentrating – Rafa style – on the actual reason you support Liverpool, the game itself, then maybe it’s time to have a rest from it all. I’m not going to tell anyone to change sports, or to give LFC a rest, but I do think it’s best for both the club and its fans if the negativity ends.

    But that’s just my view. I’m still one of those who thinks you should keep quiet in a match rather than shout at one of your own players. Even if I don’t always actually manage that! But I don’t like to see us booing our own players. I think we’re starting to embarrass ourselves, or some of us are.

    People can choose themselves how they approach the new season, whether they get behind the team and forget about the boardroom, or whether they forget about the team and get on the backs of the boardroom.

    And again, that’s not aimed at you.

    But this is.

    The Sun.

    The Sun is boycotted.

    Full stop. Period. End of story. Boycotted.

    That’s not my view. That’s the view of the club, and the view of the families, and the view of the vast majority of LFC supporters.

    It doesn’t matter whether you buy it, borrow it, steal it, get it on the net, look over someone’s shoulder or get some chips wrapped in it. It is boycotted. “Don’t buy the Sun” is a slogan, a catchier way of saying that you should not go near the Sun.

    As for “you seem remarkably acquainted with the Sun’s sports pages for someone who never reads the paper” exactly what does that mean? I never read the paper. I never read the website. I steer clear of it. If I read another website and it says “according to The Sun” the first thing I do is a news search to see if the story was somewhere else first. If not I disregard it. What have I done that means you think I’m “remarkably acquainted”?

    I was kind in saying “I hope it was a misunderstanding” but perhaps I shouldn’t have been. How difficult is it to avoid that website really?

    If you visit its site, you up its hit count, and you make it more attractive to advertisers – and I assume like most newspaper sites it’s supported by ads. So visiting the site does it a favour it doesn’t deserve, and it’s as bad as buying it.

    By all means, don’t take my word for it, write to the HJC or the HFSG and ask them for clarification.

    I know that some want to expand the boycott to the NOTW, and the Times. Others want to add Sky. Others boycotted TalkSport when McKenzie owned it. But the only title actually part of the official club boycott (players are actually forbidden from giving direct interviews to it) is The Sun.

    As for whether I want your opinions or not, well I don’t really mind. I was agreeing with others who wrote in response to your earlier comments, the general gist being that negative comments aren’t doing us any favours. I’m still not going to stop people from posting negative comments, and I’m not going to stop anyone from pointing out if they don’t agree or like those comments. I remember being annoyed with your link to The Sun in that comment whenever it was, and nearly made an issue of it there and then. But I chose not to, I chose to let it slip. It’s been brought up now by someone who seems annoyed with you in general. As long as it doesn’t get out of hand I don’t think that’s too much of a problem, but I think The Sun itself is one issue where there aren’t any grey areas. Boycott The Sun. In print, on dvd, on CD on the web.

    On this site, any links to the Sun will be deleted, that’s about the only guaranteed censorship I think I’ll ever put in place.

    And no, you won’t be the first to stay away from this website if that’s what you choose to do. Some have been in touch to say why they’re “leaving” the site, and more than one has decided to give it a break because they are sick of the negative slant they read from people responding to our ownership situation.

    Anyway – I don’t tolerate The Sun at all, but if you’ve got some evidence that they boycott is not inclusive of their website, then by all means send it on.

  23. Jim,
    Well only having used this site for 7 months I had no idea that any reference to the aforementioned newspaper however slight was to be avoided on penalty of being accused of not being a genuine fan. As I said this smacks of the Thought Police, extreme fanaticism and everything that goes with it. Yes I know N*ws Intern*tion*l published the offending articles but the real culprit was the obnoxious K*lvin McK*nzie (get my drift ?) who is no longer editor.
    It is precisely because I am a genuine fan that I am so upset at what has happened. I always thought that in addition to having the best club, fans and from time to time the best team in the world LIverpool’s club management was an exemplary. Now what ?? David Moores recently stated that the new owners had “broken his heart”. This from the man ultimately responsible for the current state of play is in my view an admission of being wrong.
    Well I really truely also want to be wrong and for Liverpool to win The Premiership and beat Man U regularly. Moreover I want to be wrong in that the new owners prove to be worthy guardians of our great club and its traditions. Can’t say fairer than that can I ? I’ll be delighted to admit I was wrong and I won’t gloat if I’m not (promise).

  24. Jim, I have been a reader of your site for a long time, never contributing anything towards it, as I thought there are many other people contributing towards your pages who can put their point across far better than I can.

    However I am disappointed in Jofrad and his opinion of how you control the site. What the S*n printed at the time was beyond gutter press and should never be forgiven or forgotten by anyone related to LFC.

    Jim has every right to remove any links that relate to that “news” paper because as he rightly says any link to their website could contribute to addition income generated by people visiting the page via this link. Any LFC supporter with even the slightest bit of common sense, or knowledge about the club would know this, and would not encourage it.

    My second point it about TH, GG and DIC. DIC made a bid that vastly undervalued the club and they took far too long going through due diligence. TH and GG came in with a higher bid, Moores accepted it on the faith on what they proposed to do with the club. I don’t think Moores can be criticised on accepting the offer he did, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

    What I am really trying to say is that TH and GG are in charge of LFC right now, and probably for the foreseeable future, people should get over it and get behind the team. To be honest I personally don’t think DIC are the best people to move our club forward, they play the game the same way as TH and GG giving interviews about what they want to do with the club but if anything they seem more underhanded about it all.

    This may seem stupid when you read it, but to a certain extent TH has been too honest in some of his interviews (and his timing sucks), but how many chairmen would come out and admit they had approached someone to take over the manager’s job before it is even vacant, I doubt even Deadly Doug Ellis would have done that!

  25. @Jofrad: I’ve not said anything about you with regards to you being a genuine fan or not. I think it would be pretty odd for anyone who’s posted here as long as you have not to be fan!

    Just speaking in general now to anybody reading this….

    I’m not going to get into the debate now about any extension of the boycott outside of The Sun. It remains a debate, a matter of opinion, and if it was taken to its full extent in terms of anything touched by MacKenzie or Murdoch we’d have to question why the club accept money from Sky, we’d have a massive list of products and publications to boycott including films from 20th Century Fox and books from Harper Collins and so on. I certainly wouldn’t fault anyone for making their own personal decision on which products to boycott outside of The Sun, but until the club or the families decide to extend the boycott to products outside of The Sun it has to remain a personal decision.

    But The Sun is The Sun, whether it’s in print or in www format. I don’t know anyone who thinks the boycott should now be lifted or eased, certainly not anyone who is connected at any level (fan, player, staff, ex-player) to LFC.

    As for MacKenzie, well he has been back in the employ of The Sun again recently, which given his decision to repeat his remarks about the victims in 2006 suggests that the newspaper has no interest in making up with us. I’ve no idea if he’s still working for them, but he certainly was when we had that protest at Anfield at the start of 2007. Remember the 6 minutes from kick off against Arsenal? “The Truth” was on a mosaic (see here – Some BBC coverage here:

    A video here about the boycott (with some familiar words) –

    The original story carried a headline of “The Truth”, under which it printed a string of lies, highlighted in three sub-headings: “Some Fans Picked Pockets of Victims”. “Some Fans Urinated on the Brave Cops”. “Some Fans Beat Up PC Giving Kiss Of Life”.

    Just a few days after seeing their attempts to save their friends, after seeing their friends die, after seeing their sons or daughter in makeshift mortuaries, after being close to the death themselves, the living victims of Hillsborough had to read that. It disgusts me, and surely it disgusts all Liverpool fans. And that’s why we boycott that paper.

    It’s not “thought police”. It’s disgust at what that rag said, and it’s attitude since. 19 years of arrogance means nothing has been done without some catch being thrown in to try and correct that disgusting front page.

    It wasn’t just the headlines. Here’s some of the text of their “story”.

    “Drunken Liverpool fans viciously attacked rescue workers as they tried to revive victims of the Hillsborough soccer disaster, it was revealed last night.

    “Police officers, firemen and ambulance crew were punched, kicked and urinated upon by a hooligan element in the crowd.

    “Some thugs rifled the pockets of injured fans as they were stretched out unconscious on the pitch.

    “Sheffield MP Irvine Patnick revealed that in one shameful episode a gang of Liverpool fans noticed that the blouse of a girl trampled to death had risen above her breasts.
    “As a policeman struggled in vain to revive her, the mob jeered: ‘Throw her up here and we will **** her’

    “One furious policeman who witnessed Saturday’s carnage stormed: ‘As we struggled in appalling conditions to save lives, fans standing further up the terrace were openly urinating on us and the bodies of the dead.”

    A ‘high-ranking’ police officer was quoted as saying: “The fans were just acting like animals. My men faced a double hell – the disaster and the fury of the fans who attacked us.”

    November 2006 and MacKenzie is reported to have said this, still standing by his claims that have been proven to be false:

    All I did wrong there was tell the truth. There was a surge of Liverpool fans who had been drinking and that is what caused the disaster. The only thing different we did was put it under the headline “The Truth”. I went on The World at One the next day and apologised. I only did that because Rupert Murdoch told me to. I wasn’t sorry then and I’m not sorry now because we told the truth.

    He was working for The Sun again when he made those comments, and they took no action against him. No action.

    Neil FitzmorrisAs for a real version of events, read this: HILLSBOROUGH AGONY OF NEW TV THRILLER’S STAR. It’s Neil Fitzmaurice.

    One stand-out quote from it: “Dead bodies popped up like corks from a bottle each time the crowd surged forward trying to get off the terrace and on to the pitch.”

    Read the rest of it. Then read MacKenzie’s and The Sun’s version again.

    If you’re aware of all this, and still think that it’s fine to link to a story from the Sun about some transfer gossip or ownership speculation, then actually yes, I would question just how genuine a fan you are. It’s not “extreme fanaticism”, it’s a simple but important stand against a paper that made accusations so sick that LFC supporters be completely boycotting the paper and its website without any reservations whatsoever.

    Some fans aren’t aware of what was written, but when they are aware I can’t see any excuse for not sticking to the boycott.

    And to be quite honest, after re-reading all that again, I don’t care right now about the ownership situation, I really don’t.

  26. @Jim….Thanks for the links.

    @Jofrad….What I dont care about right now is the excuses of “extreme fanaticism”, “thought police”.

    Anyone can make a mistake, but dont compounding it by making out that this website is in someway attempting to controll your rights to comment.

    I travel the country all week and Im sick and tired of other fans throwing crap in my face about the ownership issues, so the last thing we want to see is our own fans doing the same.

    And as a fan who also stood in the boys pen, I know better not to make any conections to the s*n……….And so should you!

  27. Jim,
    Everything you say about Hillsborough is true, The S*n represents the gutter press at its worst but you’re an intolerant, blinkered windbag.
    Liverpool have been also-rans since the early 90’s (Istanbul apart) and this is highly likely to continue as things stand. The ownership issue is biggest crisis Liverpool have faced that I can remember and you’re saying enough is enough. Well so be it.

  28. @Jofrad ….I think Hillsborough might have been a crisis…….dont you think.

    But i cant continue arguing this point anymore as I think it speaks for itself.

    In defence of the club, I’ll still say we now have an amazing stadium being built (i know the doom mongers wont believe it until its built), and a team rebuild still in its infancy. All other clubs with the exception of the chelski sh*te have gone through years of rebuilding before they enjoyed any success. but we are to believe that we can expect fairy godmothers from accross the Atlantic to wave a magic wand and fund the building of our new stadium and invest 100m on players every transfer window. Ermmmmm…..I dont think so….in the imortal words of Supertramp…..”Dreamer….nothin’ but a dreamer”.

    But in MY defence as a dreamer…..I had a dream of the mighty reds winning the title this coming season….I had a dream i was back in Rome celebrating another great european victory dancing in the fountains…..i had a dream that Raffa was givin the credit he deserved and MON was barred from the BBC…….But most of all I dreamt of Liverpool fans not bickering and dragging our mighty club down….and maybe…..just foookin maybe!!!

  29. Now we/Rafa are in a serious dilemma territory – do we keep Alonso or sell him to Arsenal to buy Barry? Hopefully Rafa’s with us, or just me, on this and keeps Alonso. My worst nightmare is Alonso links with Fabregas and then other star Spainish players begin to see Arsenal and London as a real alternative to us. Come on Rafa, let’s not do it. Let them have Barry for £18m and we’ll keep Alonso for less!!

  30. @Jofrad: I assume that reply means that maybe you now agree that any use of The Sun website is as bad as buying The Sun. I hope so.

    You say, “The ownership issue is biggest crisis Liverpool have faced that I can remember”. I assume it’s not deliberate to put the ownership situation as something worse than what happened in 1989.

    Out of interest, what do we gain as a club if everything said about our club is followed with a snipe at the owners and a prediction of doom? And from our own fans?

    A lot of what you’re basing the “crisis” on I feel sure has been later shown not to be true. Some of it will have been, some won’t.

    Do you honestly think that, from today onwards, we are doomed under these owners? Doomed meaning no hope at all?

    The new stadium will be built, there will be new sponsorship deals, new ways of increasing the money the club makes, and eventually we’ll be in a position to compete financially with our top-four rivals.

    And if at some point one of the many predictions of the owners not being able to raise finance actually comes true, I’m sure they’ll cut their losses and sell to DIC. Then we’ll have other worries to think about.

    So for now let’s get behind Rafa and the players he brings in. Let’s get behind the players still in our squad when the season begins.

  31. @midlands-red: Selling Xabi to Arsenal would be a big mistake I fear. Certainly at the £14m price range. Then again, the story seems to have come from Xabi’s agent, and there’s nothing at all so far to suggest it will go ahead.

    Meanwhile Hleb is having a medical at Barcelona later today.

  32. Cant believe what i reading here from Jim & Co..
    Get behind the owners.. Get over it.. Stop criticising it doesn’t help now..”Rafa is gettiing the players he is asking for,, even if he feels they are not his first choice” Jim what??? etc..The best is ”maybe Tom Hicks has been to onest with some of his interviews”
    Have you all forgotten what has happened in the past 18 or so months??? The Owners have failed BADLY both of them and there’s now sign of things getting better..
    The ONLY good thing from them is the new stadium, if it comes.
    We still cant compete in the transfer market, everybody can see it. Both owners have lied to us time and time again. How many lies are still ahead of us? The current situation is a disgrace at best, it was that three months ago and it hasn’t changed. Everybodu has admitted it, former players, current players..Rafas job was offered to other manager with no experience, Moores has come out about things and chief executive was humiliated public. shut up and back the owners! and dont dare to criticise!
    By the way, Rafa, along with carra,gerrard,torres etc. asked for backing in the summer, Have Rafa got it?
    Rafa has to wheel and deal, which is embarrassing for a club which has been three times in the Champions League semi-finals in past four years..

  33. In a ways I’m sorry I mentioned the S*n issue now in some ways, because it has distracted from my real issue.

    Does anybody know, without having to guess, just how Rafa feels about his transfer budget? Anyone? Any proof?

    What if Rafa is not HAPPY with the budget, but ACCEPTS it, and has made it clear to his bosses just what they can expect from him based on that budget?

    What if it’s Rafa choosing to wheel and deal for players, trying to get more for his money?

    And whatever the case is, the embarrassing part is so many of our fans sounding like spoilt kids because they can’t get their own way.

  34. How did you lot get so off topic? I thought this was about new players? Anyone got anything to say about alonso to the gunners? can rafa eally be that stupid?

  35. Some people are more intent on hurting the owners than helping the club. People are talking about what happened or was alleged to have happened, and now want revenge for it.

    What’s the point of that now?

    If seeing Hicks fall on his face means more to you than seeing Rafa making the most of whatever the situation REALLY is then carry on, but you should make it clear that’s what your position is in case we mix you up for a Liverpool fan.

    How good is it for our teams’ confidence to hear all of this nonsense all the time from supposed fans.

    The message they are getting from their own fans is that they aren’t anywhere near good enough to win anythign, they are also rans they are a team made up of cast offs and rejects and all kinds of negative abuse. Great way of getting them to start off with some confidence.

    We aren’t odds-on for the title, it still needs a lot of work, and it still might be beyond us, but if we play the way we did at the end of last season we can do a lot better than we did. A new 20mill striker in the squad isn’t going to do us any harm either.

    But no let’s all sit around and write our own club off before they’ve kicked a ball, before the transfer window is closed even.

  36. ‘If seeing Hicks fall on his face means more to you than seeing Rafa making the most of whatever the situation REALLY is then carry on’

    i’ve got no time for Hicks. The way he goes about everything completely contradicts what LFC stands for. Does anyone think he’s at the club for his love of LFC? Of course he’s not. He’s a businessman. But this would apply to DIC aswell. No-one whats him to fall on his face because by association this would consequently see Liverpool do the same.

    If we have a sticky patch during the season will Hicks stand by Rafa? No-one knows because because of Hick’s previous unpredictable actions and outbursts.

    We need stability. Rafa’s the main man to take us forward. He’s rebuilding not just the first team but the entire youth setup, bringing in plenty of foreign youngsters, with alot of promise. At least a year 3 year extension to his current contract is needed to see his hard work through.

    At this moment in time my loyalty as a fan is to the badge,the history,Rafa and the team, not to Hicks.

  37. @ dave10

    i’d be extremely surprised if Rafa would consider selling xabi to another club in England. in my opinion we should keep him and pull out of any deal for Barry if Villa want 18m. Alonso is great player. We didnt see the best of him last year due to injury, but if stays this season i’d bet that it’ll be his best yet.


    Carragher Skertel Agger Aurelio/Dossena

    Alonso Mascherano

    Gerrard ? Babel


    And for teams that come to Anfield and put 11 men behind the ball (where we slipped up last year):


    Carragher Skertel Agger

    Degan Dossena
    | Alonso Mascherano |
    | |
    | Gerrard |
    \/ \/
    Torres / ?

    Personally I think that if we fill the ? with keane or a creative player we’ve got a team that can challenge (as long as Torres stays fit)

    Am i dreaming or is this team good enough?

  38. i spent ages doing the formations above and they’ve not come out as planned. Its all moved to the left hand side!!! I even put in arrows for the wing backs. what a waste of time that was

  39. There’s too many pessimists around. We’re the only top four club without issues about loosing top players.

    Yes we’ve had problems with our owners and I don’t think anyone’s very happy with them but they are who they are and unless anyone on here has got 500 million quid there’s not a whole lot you can do about it. Get behind the team and let’s hope ownership squibbles stay out of the papers – fan solidarity will help that happen.

    I’m not sure I’d want to be owned by DIC either – Dubai has some of the worst human rights records in the world and be very careful if you ever fly through there – any exhibition match there would leave a fair few scouse fans locked up for many years alongside grooverider or whatever his name is….

    We should return more unified than all other top teams. We weren’t too far off the pace last season, especially at the start and the end and we’ve got young improving players, Agger’s back, and two new wing backs. One of our more obvious flaws last season was a lack of width from the back – Rafa’s addressed that and he’s targetting proven premiership players. Whether he gets them or not – I still think we’re in a very healthy position to start the season well. We still have a big squad and could give some of the reserves a chance – Nemeth especially – if the signings don’t work out.

    Having said all that – I don’t think we should let Alonso go to Arsenal and if need be make sure Barry doesn’t go there either…

    This is our year!

  40. @kopite999.

    I like it, I do.

    But I think you rule out Kuyt at (y)our peril. He had a miserable year in th premiership at times – but he proved in Europe and with Holland what an invaluable player he is – covering ground, as we know he’s capable of, but also scoring goals. It’s a pity we appear not to be able to afford a player who combines Kuyt and Pennant’s strengths, however – or is that Stevie G????

    I think Babel’s the one we want to see step up to the plate and perhaps – if we don’t get Keane – play behind Torres or even up front should Torres be injured. He can score more goals and should start doing so.

    You can see why Rafa has a problem with the Alonso/Monster partnership: neither of them offers an obvious goalscoring threat. BUT both are capable of offering that. So I hope Alonso stays and shows the shooting strength we know he has. And we all remember how Monster suddenly started bombing forward at every opportunity so we may see more goals from him too.

  41. @ Jim
    thanks for that. glad to see all that time at work wasnt wasted for me!

    @ midland red
    couldnt agree with you more with regards to Kuyt. he had a slow start last season for obvious off the field reasons. but in the 2nd half of the season he was excellent especially in CL and Euro’s. He’ll have a big part to play.

    And babel can be a bit hit and miss but i think everyone agrees his got the potential to be a great player

  42. Good points midlands and Kopite999!

    I’m interested to see if Rafa tries the 3 at the back thing. I know Alonso mentioned the absence of Agger last season as one of the factors preventing him going forward more.

    Also, (I could be mistaken here), is it my imagination or does Alonso tend to give away silly free kicks around the edge of our box? Anyway I think Agger can take over a lot of that work that Alonso was doing in our half last season.

    Some guy over at ‘This is Anfield’ who was reviewing the Tranmere game and reckons that someone else (i.e. not Alonso) was wearing the number 14 shirt though?????

  43. Isn’t it good to get back to talking about football?!?!

    Seems we’re doing ok over in Switzerland – and even Voronin is chipping in…..seems we may have hope that he gives us the same start he presented us with last year!

    We have so many options – just lacking a little bit of quality in places but we are oh so close I think………then Chelsea and United threaten to spend another £20m to £30m!!!

  44. @Edward: A few players had the wrong numbers on…

    13 Martin
    2 Darby
    6 Hobbs
    5 Agger
    23 Carragher
    16 Pennant
    7 Plessis
    21 Lucas
    22 Insua
    15 Benayoun
    11 Pacheco
    1 Cavalieri
    4 Hyypia
    3 Skrtel
    19 Degen
    20 Kelly
    12 Aurelio
    8 Gerrard
    14 Spearing
    10 Voronin
    9 Flynn

  45. would anyone else like to see Pacheco and Torres given a pre-season game together? He might be a bit young for a full time first team position, but given theres 7 subs allowed in the premier this year I wouldn’t mind seeing him have a few cameo’s. His pass to Lucas for the goal last night was class

  46. “Some guy over at ‘This is Anfield’ who was reviewing the Tranmere game and reckons that someone else (i.e. not Alonso) was wearing the number 14 shirt though?????”

    Someone else was also wearing Torres’ shirt, and another one Babel’s, but that doesn’t mean much.

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